Author Topic: Once upon a time...  (Read 4911 times)

Hoosierdaddy

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Once upon a time...
« on: March 09, 2009, 05:52:52 pm »
...Rdl wrote: "Currently alt.binz doesn't support headers fetching. Favourite groups are there just for XPAT search. But headers fetching will be implemented asap."

However, I get the impression from reading the sticky 'Header Fetching Not Currently Supported' that it apparently won't be implemented in the future. Bummer. I must admit, it's the one thing that keeps me from ditching Newsleecher altogether and making the jump to alt.binz. I love the app. But I love to browse the groups also. And no, contrary to what Hecks and some of the other mods say, there is NO indexing site that captures everything posted to Usenet. Which is why I still like to browse my favorite groups rather than rely on NZB files exclusively. Oh well...

Offline Hecks

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 11:10:05 pm »
I certainly didn't say that there's an index site out there that "captures everything posted to Usenet".  Unless I've forgotten ... quote?

What I do remember arguing is that the 1% of the time that you can't find what you want via NZB isn't worth the +500% extra effort needed to manage headers locally all of the time.  It's also obviously not in the interests of the majority of users for server resources to be wasted on serving up headers - given that 99.9% of this data isn't needed by the end user in the first place, and that they can only discover this *after* downloading it.

Headers are also useless for searching, unless you want to keep umpteen GB of data locally to match your 240+ day retention across all your subscribed groups.  So let's be clear about what browsing means here: only recent posts in non-indexed groups.  The return is small, the effort is large.  But hey, I'm all for choice, so whataver. ;)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 11:17:34 pm by Hecks »

shlomicthailand

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 10:36:17 am »
i agree

 one thing i like about this software its simple - intuitive no need for headers what so ever
if you need them - you need other news reader

my opinion


Hoosierdaddy

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2009, 04:57:33 am »
Hecks: "Headers are also useless for searching, unless you want to keep umpteen GB of data locally to match your 240+ day retention across all your subscribed groups.  So let's be clear about what browsing means here: only recent posts in non-indexed groups.  The return is small, the effort is large.  But hey, I'm all for choice, so whataver."


Actually, no. You're not all for choice. You're totally opposed to ANY suggestion from any Altbinz user that header browsing by group be implemented into the app. Which seems odd to me. Why do you CARE so much about a feature that, by your own admission, you will never use?

Also, everyone who replies to these threads in a negative way always repeats the same tired old crap: "Why mess up a simple lightweight app...who needs headers when you have search engines...if you want headers switch to another news app...etc etc etc...blah blah blah." But you're all ignoring two crucial points.

1. There is no way that implementing a group/header browsing function will effect the app in any way if you never use it! Don't want to use all the massive "resources" required for downloading headers? No problem. Just DON'T DOWNLOAD ANY. How could that possibly effect your use of the program? And how could it slow the app down if you never use the function in the first place. That argument is completely invalid and, frankly, needs to be retired.

2. A rather significant number of Altbinz users WANT this functionality. Witness the repeated requests, to the point that you have added a sticky to the requests forum, just to address the issue. Let's reason together here. If a large number of users (or potential users) want header fetching, then it stands to reason that if a developer wants to increase his or her user base, he/she will implement the desired feature.

Me? I would ditch Newsleecher right this second and donate to download the latest build of Altbinz IF it supported the functionality. It's the only thing keeping me from abandoning Newsleecher altogether. As it stands today, I use Altbinz as a portable app, and Newsleecher on my home machine so I can browse the groups.

To me, the whole debate is silly. If enough users want it, then add it. If you hate it and don't want it, then don't use that function. No one is going to stand over you and force you to click on that 'Download All Headers' button!

Oh, and by the way, I can think of one application where browsing is absolutely indispensible...browsing picture groups. And I don't mean just pr0n groups, although I've done my share of that. Wallpapers, photography, etc. Trust me, you don't want to download 2000 high res images just so you can go through the folder and decide which ones to discard. It is SO much easier to just browse through the groups, cherry picking the pics you want and leaving the rest. And there is NO search engine that will do that with the speed and ease that a newsreader app can.

Oh well. I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, just as the countless other requests have. But I tried.


Offline Hecks

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2009, 07:49:04 am »
First of all: chill.  Have a cold shower.  Take a bottle of chill pills.  Go on a long walk in the snow. 

Secondly: I don't process requests, only Rdl does.  It doesn't matter what I think in the long run.

Thirdly, let more of those "significant number of users" contribute to the discussion in this thread.  They haven't exactly been queuing up, have they?

Offline noons

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2009, 08:26:07 pm »
Personally if I wanted to download headers I would use newsbin pro the performance is amazing and offers 64 bit support so you can actually retain all the headers. Header support is just ridiculous for alt.binz. Alt.binz is a quick nzb application that has multiple indexed searches built in so that downloading headers isnt necessary. Its just a completely different direction that alt.binz doesnt need to go in. Why do something thats already perfectly done by other apps?

Offline awGole

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2009, 07:09:40 pm »
I wouldn't mind header dls to be honest (I'd use it for some specific groups tho, not all of em), would sooth my OCD'ish tendencies :P, but it's no dealbreaker by any means, a.b is doing what it does very well. Plus I think there are a bunch of other features that could take a.b to another level on it's current path, which I think is more important then venturing down a completely different one...

Just my 2 cents on the subject.

Offline dacaid

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 11:11:54 am »

DLing headers? Why? I don't need to grabit... (private joke inside ^^) ;D

Seriously, i don't mind if RDL one day add that function to his app, because i won't use it.
But this might be a lot of work, many new bugs to solve, to please a non significant part (you say many, i say few... who knows?...) of abz users


Offline karn

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2009, 10:14:20 pm »
Actually, no. You're not all for choice. You're totally opposed to ANY suggestion from any Altbinz user that header browsing by group be implemented into the app. Which seems odd to me. Why do you CARE so much about a feature that, by your own admission, you will never use?
Quit being an arse. He gave his opinion and then stated he didn't mind if it gets implemented. ("This is my view, but whatever, i'm all for choice" != "I don't want it").

Also, everyone who replies to these threads in a negative way always repeats the same tired old crap: "Why mess up a simple lightweight app...who needs headers when you have search engines...if you want headers switch to another news app...etc etc etc...blah blah blah." But you're all ignoring two crucial points.
They're points are as valid as yours. Why give RDL a larger workload on an application he develops in his own time for himself to use based on a feature he doesn't need.  Why make the codebase more complex when it needn't be to complete the tasks it's designed to do. Alt.Binz is NOT a newsreader. It does not directly compete with newsreaders (such as Newsleecher). If you want something to download NZBs, use Alt.Binz.  If you need headers, use a newsreader. 

1. There is no way that implementing a group/header browsing function will effect the app in any way if you never use it! Don't want to use all the massive "resources" required for downloading headers? No problem. Just DON'T DOWNLOAD ANY. How could that possibly effect your use of the program? And how could it slow the app down if you never use the function in the first place. That argument is completely invalid and, frankly, needs to be retired.
Don't be so naïve.  Any changes to software (no matter how small) may impact the rest of the codebase. You do not know to what extend adding in this functionality would affect the rest of the application. Not to mention this additional functionality would result in more bugs, additional maintenance etc etc.

To me, the whole debate is silly. If enough users want it, then add it. If you hate it and don't want it, then don't use that function. No one is going to stand over you and force you to click on that 'Download All Headers' button!
To me, your whole point is silly. If enough users wanted to upload to usenet using AltBinz should RDL spend his time doing so?  Its just as far from it's current intended purpose as header downloads imo.

Hoosierdaddy

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2009, 05:23:04 am »
Thirdly, let more of those "significant number of users" contribute to the discussion in this thread.  They haven't exactly been queuing up, have they?


Fair enough. I'll give up asking.

Hoosierdaddy

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Re: Once upon a time...
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2009, 05:24:32 am »
Quit being an arse. He gave his opinion and then stated he didn't mind if it gets implemented.

Not being an ass. Just calling it like I see it...my opinion. Sorry if it offended you.